Difference between revisions of "Talk:2007-08 ASM Star Trek (1965-2005)"

Revision as of 16:04, 6 November 2007

Comparison ST v SW

I think there could be an interesting comparison between the "general mindset" in Star Trek and Star Wars. While I know I always denied that Star Wars is Fantasy it... certainly has VERY strong elements of it, in contrast to ST. As you said: The Starfleet is militarily drilled while Luke et al rely on single heroes channelling an ominous FORCE (taught by grammatically challenged elders). I do not know yet how much time I will have left besides by Magisterarbeit (outline following soon...) but with interest twds. Fantasy I'd like to do something here maybe, possibly more twds. the beginning than the end. Main ideas I had: -[Main Point] Border of Fantasy and Science Fiction (Star Wars: Fantasy in a Science Fiction Disguise?) => What distinguishes ST from SF in this respect - What exactly makes SF "pure" SF? ... so far only basic ideas. --Nico Zorn 20:27, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

Why should Star Wars be fantasy??? Lightsabers? Well, just stumbled over this page. --Karsten Sill 20:05, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Speaking partly for Olaf, swords are one instance. Then there is the plot: hero with 'supernatural powers' (the force==magic?), an evil black mage (Palpatine, Vader), unbeatable odds...and the success of the hero through... well.. I'd say a combination of faith and magic. Which is not a problem, if one regards it a kind of faith-magic.... I do not know if there are gods in the SW universe, though. Another perspective is this movie which has been acknowledged by G.L. to be of important influence on SW. I would still not classify it as Fantasy... but in the end one probably has to ask: how important is milieu as a criterium for the definition of "Fantasy"? --Nico Zorn 23:19, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Sounds interesting (Starwars no fantasy??? with princesses and monsters and swords, I repeat swords, in a technically superior future???)

Underline the "technical superior future" and you have the reason why I am still saying "at the very least no pure fantasy". And yes, yes I know that the definition is shaky. Unfortunately, they all are. Besides: even Klingons still fight with swordlike weapons. Well, something between sword and polearm and parade weapon - their Bathleths (sp?). --Nico Zorn 11:55, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Fragments of Mind

"Economy": We never hear of an economic system and I remember Kirk telling the biologist in ST IV that all money has been abandoned. Yet, in Generations he tells Picard that he has SOLD his house... glitch? hidden Federation-internal trading system? (obviously there is some kind of trade between different races with different products &c

Nostalgia: ST VI - even the title is a Shakespeare quote ("The Undiscovered Country", Hamlet, III.ii?)- "Klingon original" - and General Chang really likes quoting him. Also...

Contemporal Events ... the same Chang's name: pointing to an alleged "Chino-Asian [Communist] menace" [1991] within the allegory of the fall of Communism as en.wikipedia states. Enrony? The Federation seems pretty Communistic to me by now.--Nico Zorn 00:36, 9 September 2007 (CEST)

Commercial Success: Just found the quotas for ST on Kabel 1 - apparently still a success, at least for a smaller channel: http://www.quotenmeter.de/?newsid=22328 --Nico Zorn 12:47, 16 September 2007 (CEST)

Asteroid named for ST character - ongoing cultural presence of the ST universe

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071007 , cf. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21106431/

Another testimony to the development of a new, transparent 'steel' are many responses in varying news comments dubbing it "Transparent Aluminium" (see Star Trek IV)

Nov 10, 2007: The Star Trek Night - The Movies

I suggest to change the program of that meeting from

"we'll try to see as many of the movies as possible, eat and drink wine"

to

"we'll see the movies, eat and try to drink as much of the wine as possible"

--Christian Fiedler

 :) --Olaf Simons 08:31, 25 October 2007 (CEST)

Oct 25, 2007: Seminar Plan - please comment and modify!

Hi everyone: I just concluded a first draft of what might become our schedule. Commentary is welcome. If you have topics you feel interested in, throw them in. I'll try to fit them into the schedule or to modify the schedule accordingly. :PS - and please log in with your real names. See the main page to see how we did it. --Olaf Simons 10:07, 25 October 2007 (CEST)

Oct 31, 2007: The most important list

Which are the important films we have to watch, your fovourites? If you can tell why, that is even better - 'cause we should make sure that we do not miss something important. Look at the Wikipedia links I provided to refer to titles

TOS

Next Generation

Deep Space Nine

Suggestions for topics:

• Prophets; Pah-Wraiths and Founders - Godlike Beings play a prominent role in DS9.
• Bajor-Cardassia-conflict
• Captain Sisko's development over the course of the series (note the change between seasons 3 and 4.). Possibly due to low ratings, Sisko's outward appearance was changed. At the same time the Dominion was introduced into DS9 story arc which paved the way for a lot of action (Dominion war). The Defiant (first ever federation WARship, heavily armed) made its first appearances in season 4 as well. The new story arc deviated from previous Star Trek series in several ways. It focused on action and war rather than discovery and research. Possibly due to low ratings and/or Roddenberrys death?

Suggestions for shows:

• Pilot Prophets story arc
• Way of the warrior Dominion war stoty arc

--David schuenemann 15:57, 6 November 2007 (CET)

Voyager

Suggestions for topics:

• The Maquis a paramilitary terrorist organization

--David schuenemann 16:01, 6 November 2007 (CET)

Enterprise

Oct 31, 2007: e-mail list

Please note down your E-mail addresses - the ones you really use, so that I can create a list we can use to communicate with each other.

olaf.simons@pierre-marteau.com, wiebkemail@gmail.com, karstensill@uni-oldenburg.de, manuel.saralidis@googlemail.com, nina@yaq1.net, vogelstange@gmx.de, jenshagemann@gmx.net, nico.zorn@grimoires.de, henning.kurre@uni-oldenburg.de, melanie.molthahn@ewetel.net, friederike.torborg@uni-oldenburg.de, Tobster@gmx.net, anna_rozwadowski@hotmail.com, meyerise@web.de, cassidy0110@aol.com, schullis@hotmail.com, chasra@gmail.com, claudia.zube@mail.uni-oldenburg.de, josiwesemann@gmx.de, nils.heinecke@uni-oldenburg.de, sandra.pospich@gmx.de, socom7@web.de, jan.gaebel@fortytwo.uni-oldenburg.de, david.schuenemann@uni-oldenburg.de, jk-ganja@web.de,

Dec 5, 2007: Show suggestions

Suggestions for shows:
Who mourns for Adonais? (TOS) Kirk et al. meet a being demanding identifying himself as Apollon and apparently really being the Greek God. Kirk declines to worship him by stating that 'the one' god they have is enough; Apollon finally leaves as there is 'no place for gods any more'.
Justice (TNG) How to deal with a benevolent, protective god of pacifist aliens with overly cruel punishments? (Can the allowance of a people's "God" legitimately override the Prime Directive?) DS9: no idea which show would be best featuring Sisko as "The Emissary"... lots of tidbits.
The Final Frontier (Star Trek V) Ok, no show... but with religion and Eden/Sha Ka Ree at the core. --Nico Zorn 23:17, 31 October 2007 (CET)

Mirror, Mirror etc.

After the original episode Mirror, Mirror (TOS) the SAME parallel universe (called the Mirror Universe was revisted several times in DS9. The first of those visits was equally involuntary and comments briefly on the effects of Mirror-Spock's decision: Crossover (DS9). Further exchange between the universes now follows in intended but enforced manner in Through the Looking Glass (DS9) and Shattered Mirror (DS9), both in direction towards the mirror universe, as well as in Resurrection (DS9) which brings back a "really" dead character in form pf its mirror entity. The exchange between the universes finally culminates in an awkward attempt of (who else?) Grand Nagus Zek to make profit from trade between them. The Emperor's New Cloak (DS9). Apparently there is also a double show of the Enterprise which I have never seen and which is apparently inconsistent with other mirror episodes and giving a version of the Terran Empire's founding: In a Mirror, Darkly. The dramturgic use of the universe is drastically different. It now provides a showplace to help 'good' mankind in their struggle against 'evil' powerful empires as well as playing out "dead" characters and putting "real" characters in alternative situations. Plus, people are now AWARE of the mirror universe(s) and actively interconnect. Sidenote: The Prime Directive does not really apply here. (They DO have warp.) --Nico Zorn 20:28, 3 November 2007 (CET)

The Mirror-universe has its intrinsic problems anyway: As we learn, these people - in the negative universe - annihilate each other quite easily, life is not that precious to them - the divergence of both universes should be immense after only a week. (Or it turns out, that both universes are equally stable - relying on each other... I do not know - in any case I found the project intriguing as it allowed us to think of a different organisation of everything. The negative universe tells us much about the positive. I'm thinking of a session on rebellions on board, power structures... Do take a look at the last TOS show Turnaboubout Intrudor, 1969, where they nearly have executions on board of the good Enterprise: A Kirk (changeling) commands the execution of Spock, Bones and Scotty - and the crew is hardly ready to believe that the real Kirk does now live in the body of a woman - all very weird and revealing. --Olaf Simons 12:32, 4 November 2007 (CET)