Angl-Am - User contributions [en]

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-28T12:53:10Z

Karsten Woll: /* Understanding problem */

===Question 3 ===

Are we supposed to interpret the metre and rhyme scheme with regard to the content or shall we only name these? Alena Ruether
:"Comment on" is a bit more than just "name" yet less then "write a full blown interpretation". --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 15:09, 24 April 2008 (CEST)

===Another Question===

But how much more, do we have to do?

I am right now working with the poem and I have some problems with the word 'comment' and 'identify'!
Does 'identify' mean we are just supposed to declare which sections or addressee we have found out?
And does 'comment' mean we shall find out the metre and rhyme scheme and afterwards say what is special about it? Or shall we also say what influence differences in metre or something else have on the poem?

I am a little scared to hand in my assignment, because it seems to me that I don't know how to begin!

:A couple of links: [[Survive Assignments]] gives you some general remarks. This is the last year's assignment: [[BM1 - Introduction to Literature - Assignment 1]] - and if you take a look at its discussion page you will even find a discussion of the solutions we then received. Yet the best preparation was to be found in our courses where we asked such questions and where we gave you opportunities to test model solutions. All you have to do is think of which answers of your fellow students you found elucidating... best, --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 18:51, 25 April 2008 (CEST)

===Question 4===

I asked Anna (how are we supposed to address you) after the last seminar whether we should write a text or headwords (stichpunkte)... She immediately answered: Text! :-) --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)
: 'Anna' is just fine, Karsten! ;-) --[[User:Anna Auguscik|Anna Auguscik]] 21:33, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Word question===

I got difficulties with the word "coopt"... i know what it means but in combination with love it seems to be a false declination... can't really figure out what it should mean in this case. --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

:I paraphrased "coop" with "to be in": "Love was in the charet of her eye". I'm not sure, whether it is correct, but it makes sense (at least for me). --[[User:Alena Ruether|Alena Ruether]] 14:23, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

::I'm, as Alena, not sure either. But paraphrasing it with "to be in" might change the meaning. The line says: "Love cooped behind the chariot of here eye,". Don't forget "behind". Maybe Percy meant that you have to fight (against the chariot?) to get love? Just a thought... --[[User:Christopher Bosum|Christopher Bosum]] 12:27, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Understanding problem===

Is there anybody who understands the second and third quatrain?
I got some problems understanding those stanzas, because I don' t know who is talking to whom, especially in the third stanza?

Maybe there is someone who has a clue!

I would appreciate it!

:"love" i guess is referring to Cupid (Armor)
:so "quoth HE" is Cupid and Cupid is talking to the speaker,
:in the second stanza the speaker is still talking about him falling in love!
:At least that's what i'm thinking... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 16:58, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

::Well,why should it be Cupid? There are absolutely no signs pointed out that it is possibly him.
::Indeed that line is special cause someone else is talking but you get the answer from the speaker himself who is talking...line13: ''Imperious God''. And Cupid is definitely not imperious as he is just one of some hundred Roman gods. Just one advice guys: Widen your horizone a little more and dont only stick to the love topic in that poem. It carries far more than simple expression of feelings! Cheerz --[[User:Jessika Thiele]] 09:42, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

Because there is a prayer to god in the couplet, I thought that because the speaker has suspitions and bold presumptions there is something not that good as it seems in the beginning!

Line 1:'... and yet unhappie hour' --> something is wrong or went wrong and I mean why should love coop behind chariots if everything is allright! I thought god is giving some kind of answer and now the speaker in line 9 asks god if he really should just look and not practise!?

Firts I thought of some kind of challenging of god, in the way of 'I should just look at you and not practise other godesses! But I don't know how to prove this idea!

But the thing is, in any case, that something isn't right! line3 'sweetest soure'

::I hope nobody ever thought before that this is a happy love poem. Already the contradiction in the first line tells us whats up in there. But frankly I also like the idea that the imperious god demands the faith in only him and not other gods. Maybe you can think about it and prove it.Good luck!--[[User:Jessika Thiele]] 17:17, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

Why shouldn't it be Cupid, theres no other God who shoots arrows.. except Zeus perhaps, but.. well..let me explain what i mean... There is no word referring to another noun than "love"

Love coopt behind the charet of her eye,

Iustly to schoole my bold presumption,

Against my hart did let an arrow flie

Who should let an arrow flie? Theres's no third person indicated.. in this case I would argue that "Love" has to be this third person... because there's still this connotation to love embodied in a little fellow with some arrows and a bow... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 23:16, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

Keep it simple we learned so far. What about taking it by word? Why the heart cannot let the arrow flie? Then its a simple figure of speech.

:: sorry but THAT doesn't make any sense at all because of the AGAINST.... this against is quite obviously connected to "my hart" --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 14:53, 28 April 2008 (CEST)

===Question of length===

Is it possible to answer the complete assignment on circa one page! If we give precise answers this should be satisfying, shouldn't it? Please answer A.S.A.P because now I got still time to do more!
Thanks --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 19:22, 26 April 2008 (CEST)
:I'm afraid, it will be quite difficult to express your thoughts and comments on all five questions within one page only. If you check the [[Literary Studies:Style sheet|style sheet]], you'll see how little text one page contains... --[[User:Anna Auguscik|Anna Auguscik]] 21:33, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Word question 2===

Does anybody know what chariot also means because I just find the translation 'STreitwagen' and that doesn't fit, I think. I mean 'Liebe wurde hinter dem Streitwagen ihrer Augen eingesperrt'?!

===Feet problem===

If there are 11 syllables are there 6 feet or 5? I thought 2 syllables = 1 feet and that would mean
11 syllables = 6 feet!

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-27T21:16:05Z

Karsten Woll: /* Understanding problem */

==Test==
I won't be able to come in next time. Cheers. [[User:Corinna Brinkmann|Corinna Brinkmann]] 12:36, 9 April 2008 (CEST)

== Assignment 1==
===Question 3 ===

Are we supposed to interpret the metre and rhyme scheme with regard to the content or shall we only name these? Alena Ruether
:"Comment on" is a bit more than just "name" yet less then "write a full blown interpretation". --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 15:09, 24 April 2008 (CEST)

===Another Question===

But how much more, do we have to do?

I am right now working with the poem and I have some problems with the word 'comment' and 'identify'!
Does 'identify' mean we are just supposed to declare which sections or addressee we have found out?
And does 'comment' mean we shall find out the metre and rhyme scheme and afterwards say what is special about it? Or shall we also say what influence differences in metre or something else have on the poem?

I am a little scared to hand in my assignment, because it seems to me that I don't know how to begin!

:A couple of links: [[Survive Assignments]] gives you some general remarks. This is the last year's assignment: [[BM1 - Introduction to Literature - Assignment 1]] - and if you take a look at its discussion page you will even find a discussion of the solutions we then received. Yet the best preparation was to be found in our courses where we asked such questions and where we gave you opportunities to test model solutions. All you have to do is think of which answers of your fellow students you found elucidating... best, --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 18:51, 25 April 2008 (CEST)

===Question 4===

I asked Anna (how are we supposed to address you) after the last seminar whether we should write a text or headwords (stichpunkte)... She immediately answered: Text! :-) --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)
: 'Anna' is just fine, Karsten! ;-) --[[User:Anna Auguscik|Anna Auguscik]] 21:33, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Word question===

I got difficulties with the word "coopt"... i know what it means but in combination with love it seems to be a false declination... can't really figure out what it should mean in this case. --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

:I paraphrased "coop" with "to be in": "Love was in the charet of her eye". I'm not sure, whether it is correct, but it makes sense (at least for me). --[[User:Alena Ruether|Alena Ruether]] 14:23, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

::I'm, as Alena, not sure either. But paraphrasing it with "to be in" might change the meaning. The line says: "Love cooped behind the chariot of here eye,". Don't forget "behind". Maybe Percy meant that you have to fight (against the chariot?) to get love? Just a thought... --[[User:Christopher Bosum|Christopher Bosum]] 12:27, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Understanding problem===

Is there anybody who understands the second and third quatrain?
I got some problems understanding those stanzas, because I don' t know who is talking to whom, especially in the third stanza?

Maybe there is someone who has a clue!

I would appreciate it!

:"love" i guess is referring to Cupid (Armor)
:so "quoth HE" is Cupid and Cupid is talking to the speaker,
:in the second stanza the speaker is still talking about him falling in love!
:At least that's what i'm thinking... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 16:58, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

::Well,why should it be Cupid? There are absolutely no signs pointed out that it is possibly him.
::Indeed that line is special cause someone else is talking but you get the answer from the speaker himself who is talking...line13: ''Imperious God''. And Cupid is definitely not imperious as he is just one of some hundred Roman gods. Just one advice guys: Widen your horizone a little more and dont only stick to the love topic in that poem. It carries far more than simple expression of feelings! Cheerz --[[User:Jessika Thiele]] 09:42, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

Because there is a prayer to god in the couplet, I thought that because the speaker has suspitions and bold presumptions there is something not that good as it seems in the beginning!

Line 1:'... and yet unhappie hour' --> something is wrong or went wrong and I mean why should love coop behind chariots if everything is allright! I thought god is giving some kind of answer and now the speaker in line 9 asks god if he really should just look and not practise!?

Firts I thought of some kind of challenging of god, in the way of 'I should just look at you and not practise other godesses! But I don't know how to prove this idea!

But the thing is, in any case, that something isn't right! line3 'sweetest soure'

::I hope nobody ever thought before that this is a happy love poem. Already the contradiction in the first line tells us whats up in there. But frankly I also like the idea that the imperious god demands the faith in only him and not other gods. Maybe you can think about it and prove it.Good luck!--[[User:Jessika Thiele]] 17:17, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

Why shouldn't it be Cupid, theres no other God who shoots arrows.. except Zeus perhaps, but.. well..let me explain what i mean... There is no word referring to another noun than "love"

Love coopt behind the charet of her eye,

Iustly to schoole my bold presumption,

Against my hart did let an arrow flie

Who should let an arrow flie? Theres's no third person indicated.. in this case I would argue that "Love" has to be this third person... because there's still this connotation to love embodied in a little fellow with some arrows and a bow... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 23:16, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Question of length===

Is it possible to answer the complete assignment on circa one page! If we give precise answers this should be satisfying, shouldn't it? Please answer A.S.A.P because now I got still time to do more!
Thanks --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 19:22, 26 April 2008 (CEST)
:I'm afraid, it will be quite difficult to express your thoughts and comments on all five questions within one page only. If you check the [[Literary Studies:Style sheet|style sheet]], you'll see how little text one page contains... --[[User:Anna Auguscik|Anna Auguscik]] 21:33, 27 April 2008 (CEST)

===Word question 2===

Does anybody know what chariot also means because I just find the translation 'STreitwagen' and that doesn't fit, I think. I mean 'Liebe wurde hinter dem Streitwagen ihrer Augen eingesperrt'?!

===Feet problem===

If there are 11 syllables are there 6 feet or 5? I thought 2 syllables = 1 feet and that would mean
11 syllables = 6 feet!

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T17:22:37Z

Karsten Woll:

==Test==
I won't be able to come in next time. Cheers. [[User:Corinna Brinkmann|Corinna Brinkmann]] 12:36, 9 April 2008 (CEST)

== Assignment 1, Question 3 ==

Are we supposed to interpret the metre and rhyme scheme with regard to the content or shall we only name these? Alena Ruether
:"Comment on" is a bit more than just "name" yet less then "write a full blown interpretation". --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 15:09, 24 April 2008 (CEST)

==Another Question==

But how much more, do we have to do?

I am right now working with the poem and I have some problems with the word 'comment' and 'identify'!
Does 'identify' mean we are just supposed to declare which sections or addressee we have found out?
And does 'comment' mean we shall find out the metre and rhyme scheme and afterwards say what is special about it? Or shall we also say what influence differences in metre or something else have on the poem?

I am a little scared to hand in my assignment, because it seems to me that I don't know how to begin!

:A couple of links: [[Survive Assignments]] gives you some general remarks. This is the last year's assignment: [[BM1 - Introduction to Literature - Assignment 1]] - and if you take a look at its discussion page you will even find a discussion of the solutions we then received. Yet the best preparation was to be found in our courses where we asked such questions and where we gave you opportunities to test model solutions. All you have to do is think of which answers of your fellow students you found elucidating... best, --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 18:51, 25 April 2008 (CEST)

==Question 4==

I asked Anna (how are we supposed to address you) after the last seminar whether we should write a text or headwords (stichpunkte)...

She immediately answered: Text! :-) --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

==Word question==

I got difficulties with the word "coopt"... i know what it means but in combination with love it seems to be a false declination... can't really figure out what it should mean in this case. --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

I paraphrased "coop" with "to be in": "Love was in the charet of her eye". I'm not sure, whether it is correct, but it makes sense (at least for me). --[[User:Alena Ruether|Alena Ruether]] 14:23, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

== Understanding problem ==

Is there anybody who understands the second and third quatrain?
I got some problems understanding those stanzas, because I don' t know who is talking to whom, especially in the third stanza?

Maybe there is someone who has a clue!

I would appreciate it!

"love" i guess is referring to Cupid (Armor)
so "quoth HE" is Cupid and Cupid is talking to the speaker,
in the second stanza the speaker is still talking about him falling in love!
At least that's what i'm thinking... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 16:58, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

==Question of length==

Is it possible to answer the complete assignment on circa one page! If we give precise answers this should be satisfying, shouldn't it? Please answer A.S.A.P because now I got still time to do more!
Thanks --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 19:22, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T14:59:20Z

Karsten Woll: /* Understanding problem */

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T14:59:01Z

Karsten Woll: /* Understanding problem */

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T14:58:20Z

Karsten Woll: /* Understanding problem */

==Test==
I won't be able to come in next time. Cheers. [[User:Corinna Brinkmann|Corinna Brinkmann]] 12:36, 9 April 2008 (CEST)

== Assignment 1, Question 3 ==

Are we supposed to interpret the metre and rhyme scheme with regard to the content or shall we only name these? Alena Ruether
:"Comment on" is a bit more than just "name" yet less then "write a full blown interpretation". --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 15:09, 24 April 2008 (CEST)

==Another Question==

But how much more, do we have to do?

I am right now working with the poem and I have some problems with the word 'comment' and 'identify'!
Does 'identify' mean we are just supposed to declare which sections or addressee we have found out?
And does 'comment' mean we shall find out the metre and rhyme scheme and afterwards say what is special about it? Or shall we also say what influence differences in metre or something else have on the poem?

I am a little scared to hand in my assignment, because it seems to me that I don't know how to begin!

:A couple of links: [[Survive Assignments]] gives you some general remarks. This is the last year's assignment: [[BM1 - Introduction to Literature - Assignment 1]] - and if you take a look at its discussion page you will even find a discussion of the solutions we then received. Yet the best preparation was to be found in our courses where we asked such questions and where we gave you opportunities to test model solutions. All you have to do is think of which answers of your fellow students you found elucidating... best, --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 18:51, 25 April 2008 (CEST)

==Question 4==

I asked Anna (how are we supposed to address you) after the last seminar whether we should write a text or headwords (stichpunkte)...

She immediately answered: Text! :-) --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

==Word question==

I got difficulties with the word "coopt"... i know what it means but in combination with love it seems to be a false declination... can't really figure out what it should mean in this case. --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 08:57, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

I paraphrased "coop" with "to be in": "Love was in the charet of her eye". I'm not sure, whether it is correct, but it makes sense (at least for me). --[[User:Alena Ruether|Alena Ruether]] 14:23, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

== Understanding problem ==

Is there anybody who understands the second and third quatrain?
I got some problems understanding those stanzas, because I don' t know who is talking to whom, especially in the third stanza?

Maybe there is someone who has a clue!

I would appreciate it!

"love" i guess is referring to Cupid (Armor) so "quoth HE" is Cupid and Cupid is talking to the speaker, in the second stanza the speaker is still talking about him falling in love! At least that's what i'm thinking... --[[User:Karsten Woll|Karsten Woll]] 16:58, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

User:Karsten Woll

2008-04-26T10:44:33Z

Karsten Woll:

==Member of the Fachschaft==

Name: Karsten Woll

Spitzname/n: Karsten sucht den Superspitznamen (hab keinen)

Geburtsdatum: 07.04.1988

Sternzeichen: Widder

Semester: 2.

Fächer: Anglistik, Sozialwissenschaften

Was ich mache, wenn ich nicht studiere: singen, lesen, Gitarre spielen

Mein/e Lieblingsdozent/in: bis jetzt Prof. Dr. Heidenreich

Meine 3 Dinge für eine einsame Insel: meine Freundin, Bücher und ein Boot

Meine 3 Jahrtausendsongs: RATM - Killing in the name of, Curse - Was ist jetzt?, Frank Sinatra - My Way

Meine 3 Jahrtausendfilme: Gladiator, School of Rock, Keinohrhasen

Meine 3 Jahrtausendbücher: Nick Hornby - About A Boy, Tad Williams - Otherland, J.R.R. Tolkien - Der Herr der Ringe

Mein Lieblingsort: Wanna (there's no place like home)

Mein Lieblingszitat: "Wie bitte, sie müssen lauter sprechen, ich habe nur ein Handtuch um" (Homer Simpson)

Meine Lieblings-Filmszene: Der "Hexenprozess" bei Monty Pythons Ritter der Kokosnuss (wenn sie so viel wiegt wie eine Ente ist sie eine Hexe)

Mein Lieblingsstofftier heißt Robbie und ist ein Keinohrhase oder auch eine Seerobbe mit Armen

Das sage ich ziemlich oft: Oh mein Gott!

Mein Unwort des Jahres: Castingshow

In der Uni findet man mich am ehesten in/im: der Mensa

Was ich immer schon an alle Anglisten loswerden wollte: Lasst euch nicht verrückt machen!

http://www.thefachschaftoldenburg.ag.vu/

User:Karsten Woll

2008-04-26T10:43:41Z

Karsten Woll:

==Member of the Fachschaft==

Name: Karsten Woll
Spitzname/n: Karsten sucht den Superspitznamen (hab keinen)
Geburtsdatum: 07.04.1988
Sternzeichen: Widder
Semester: 2.
Fächer: Anglistik, Sozialwissenschaften
Was ich mache, wenn ich nicht studiere: singen, lesen, Gitarre spielen
Mein/e Lieblingsdozent/in: bis jetzt Prof. Dr. Heidenreich
Meine 3 Dinge für eine einsame Insel: meine Freundin, Bücher und ein Boot
Meine 3 Jahrtausendsongs: RATM - Killing in the name of, Curse - Was ist jetzt?, Frank Sinatra - My Way
Meine 3 Jahrtausendfilme: Gladiator, School of Rock, Keinohrhasen
Meine 3 Jahrtausendbücher: Nick Hornby - About A Boy, Tad Williams - Otherland, J.R.R. Tolkien - Der Herr der Ringe
Mein Lieblingsort: Wanna (there's no place like home)
Mein Lieblingszitat: "Wie bitte, sie müssen lauter sprechen, ich habe nur ein Handtuch um" (Homer Simpson)
Meine Lieblings-Filmszene: Der "Hexenprozess" bei Monty Pythons Ritter der Kokosnuss (wenn sie so viel wiegt wie eine Ente ist sie eine Hexe)
Mein Lieblingsstofftier heißt Robbie und ist ein Keinohrhase oder auch eine Seerobbe mit Armen
Das sage ich ziemlich oft: Oh mein Gott!
Mein Unwort des Jahres: Castingshow
In der Uni findet man mich am ehesten in/im: der Mensa
Was ich immer schon an alle Anglisten loswerden wollte: Lasst euch nicht verrückt machen!

http://www.thefachschaftoldenburg.ag.vu/

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T06:57:57Z

Karsten Woll: /* Question 4 */

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T06:57:43Z

Karsten Woll:

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T06:38:43Z

Karsten Woll:

Talk:2008 BM1 Assignment 1: Poetry

2008-04-26T06:37:13Z

Karsten Woll:

Pierre Daniel Huet, Traitté de l’origine des romans (1670)

2007-10-31T16:15:48Z

Karsten Woll: /* 118 */

==Editions==
*Pierre Daniel Huet, ''Treatise of Romances'', 1670, first English translation (1672). [http://www.uni-oldenburg.de/anglistik/lit-wiss/intro-to-literature/d/1672_huet__treatise_of_romances.pdf Oldenburg Anglistikserver]
*Pierre Daniel Huet, ''History of Romances'', 1670, translated by Stephen Lewis (1715) [http://galenet.galegroup.com/servlet/ECCO?vrsn=1.0&dd=0&locID=bis&b1=KE&srchtp=b&d1=0143100500&SU=All&c=2&ste=10&d4=0.33&stp=DateAscend&dc=tiPG&n=10&docNum=CW110602030&b0=huet&tiPG=1 ECCO] [http://www.uni-oldenburg.de/anglistik/lit-wiss/intro-to-literature/d/1715_huet__history_of_romances.pdf Oldenburg Anglistikserver]
unter diesem [http://www.wiki.uni-oldenburg.de/fk3/angl-am/index.php?title=Pierre_Daniel_Huet%2C_Traitt%C3%A9_de_l%E2%80%99origine_des_romans_%281670%29&action=history link] könnt Ihr einsehen, wie der nachfolgende Text zusammengebaut wurde.

Laßt bei Absätzen einfach eine Leerzeile - und pafft auf die langen s auf - da gibts einen Unterfchied zwifchen s und f... :) --[[User:Olaf Simons|Olaf Simons]] 10:28, 31 October 2007 (CET)

==Links==

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitt%C3%A9_de_l%27origine_des_romans Pierre Daniel Huet, Traitté de l’origine des romans (1670).] - English Wikipedia with a lengthy excerpt.
* [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitt%C3%A9_de_l%E2%80%99origine_des_romans Pierre Daniel Huet, Traitté de l’origine des romans (1670)] - German Wikipedia with an article on Huet's book.

__NOTOC__

==Text of the English edition published in 1715==

==Short Title==

[ornament] THE| HISTORY| OF| ROMANCES [ornament]

==Title page==

THE| HISTORY| OF| ROMANCES.| AN| Enquiry into their ''Original'';| ''Instructions for Composing them'';| AN| Account of the most Eminent| AUTHORS;| With Characters, and Curious Observations| upon the Best Performance of that Kind.| [rule]| Written in ''Latin'' by HUETIUS;| Made ''English'' by| Mr. ''STEPHEN LEWIS.''| [rule] ——juvat integros accedere fontes,| Atque haurire. ''Lucr.''| [rule]| Rrinted for J HOOKE, at the ''Flower-de-luce'',| and T. CALDECOTT, at the ''Sun''; both against St.| ''Dunstan''’s Church in ''Fleetstreet''. 1715.

==i==

THE

PREFACE.

''THERE is not any Speculation, which affords a more agreeable Pleasure to the Mind, than that of beholding from what Obscure and Mean Beginnings, the most Polite and Entertaining Arts have''

==ii==

''risen to be the Admiration and Delight of Mankind. To pursue them up to the most abstruse Fountains, and then to view by what Steps they arise to Perfection; does not only excite an Amazement at their Increase; but an Impatient Desire of Inventing some New Subject, to be improv'd and advanc'd by Posterity.''

''The first Occasion of introducing'' ROMANCE ''into the World, was, without Dispute to mollify the Rigour of Precepts, by the Allurements of Example. Where the Mind can't be subdued into Virtue, by Reason and Philosophy; nothing can''

==iii==
''influence it more, than to present to it the Success and Felicity, which Crowns the Pursuit of what's Great and Honourable. As the'' Poet ''very elegantly alludes to'' Homer;

:Qui quid sit pulchum, quid turpe, quid utile, quid non
:Planius & melius, Chrysippo & Crantore dicit.

''And since in all Ages there were very few real Instances, fit to be proposed for Exact Patters of Imitation; the Ingenious'' Fabulist ''was forced to supply them out of his own Invention.''

==iv==
''Hence it appears, that the Original of'' Romance ''is very Ancient; since this Way of Promoting Virtue has been received in the Earliest Ages; as is evident from the first Records of Mankind. And as it stands very remote from Modern Ages; so, That is found out, must be an High Satisfaction to the Curious in Antiquity.''

''Upon this Account, They are very much indebted to the Labour and Penetration of'' Huetius; ''who has, with great Judgement, traced the Subject he undertook to Illustrate, till he found it in''

==v==
''its Infancy, involved in the Umbrage of'' Fable, ''and perplexed in the Folds of'' Mystery ''and'' Riddle.

''This Task was enjoin'd Him (He informs us)

==vi==
by his Aquaintance and Friend, Monsieur Segrais; a Gentleman very intimately versed in all Polite Learning; and admirably well qualified, to Discern and Judge, upon the Subject of ROMANCES; since He had discover'd himself to be a Compleat Master in the Art, by several inimitable Productions of that Nature, which he published in the Language of his Country: A Country, Famous for all Sorts of Delight-

==vii==

And, in my Opinion, the Man who acquits himselof well of the Province he undertakes, (tho' of small Importance) deserves as much, as He who has been more Fortunate in the Choice of a Subjekt for his Application

Without doubt, Huetius was sensible of this; otherwise he would have bestowed his Time to a better Account, since He had before approv'd himself very well to the World, by his Ingenious Performances in Divinity, and other Learning. And I dare assert, that none of his Labours have contributed more to his Reputation than his

==viii==

''Especially since ''Romance'' has of late convey'd it self very far into the Esteem of this Nation, and is become the Principal Diversion of the Retirement of People of all Conditions.''

==ix==

==xi==
has; This, I presume, is not the first Case, where a Good Design has aton'd for some slight Imperfections in the Prosecution of it.

==[xii]==

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same may be apply'd to Romances, with this Restraint, that a total Fiction of the Argument is more allowable in Romances, where the Actors are of indifferent Quality, (such are the Comic) than in Heroic Performances, where Princes and Conquerors are the Characters, and where the Adventures are Memorable and Illustrious; because it can't be probable that great Transactions and Events lie hid to the World, and neglected by Historians; and Probability, which is not always observ'd in History, is essential to a Romance.

I exclude that sort of History which is False throughout the whole Narration, but was invented

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have since explained, illustrated, and digested them in their particular Works; and beside this have composed several Poems, Prologues and Apologues.

The ''Cyprians'' and ''Cilicians'' have invented certain Fables which bore the Name of the People of those Nations; and the particular Disposition of the ''Cilicians'' to Lying gave rise to one of the Ancientest Proverbs in ''Greece''.

In short, Fables have been in such Vogue all over these Countries, that (according to the Testimony of ''Lucian'',) there were particular Orders of Men among the ''Assyrians'' and ''Arabians'', whose sole (whole?) Province was to explain Fables; and who observed such a

==35==
Regularity in their Life, that they extended it much farther than other People.

But it is not enough to have discovered ''The Original of Romances''; we must see by what Streams they have spread and convey'd themselves into ''Greece'', and ''Italy'', and whether they have passed from thence to us; or we have received them from any other Nation. The ''Ionians'', a People of ''Asia Minor'', being raised to great Power, and having acquired vast Riches, immersed themselves into Luxury and Voluptuousness, and indulged themselves in all the Extravagancies of Plenty.

==36==
''Cyrus'' subdued them by making ''Cr&oelig;sus'' his Captive, with whom he received all ''Asia Minor'' into his Subjection. The ''Persians'' upon this Success admitted their Manners with their Laws, and mixed their Debauches with those their own Inclinations supplied them with, and so grew to be the most Voluptuous Nation in the World. They began to refine upon the Pleasures of the Table, by making the Addition of Flowers and Perfumes. They first invented the Ornaments for their houses. The finest Wools, and the richest Tapestries in the World were their Productions. They invented the lascivious Dance, call'd the ''Ionic''; and became so remarkable for Effemi-

==37==
nacy, that

==38==
But there were the first who corrupted them, and filled them with Lascivious and Amorous Narrations. Their Works are devoured by Time: We hear of no more than ''Aristides'' of them, who was the most Famous of the Romancers, and wrote several Books of Verse, called the ''Milesian'' Fables. I find that one ''Dionyius'', a ''Milesian'', who lived under the Reign of ''Darius'' the First, composed some Fabulous Histories; but since I can't certain whether this was any more than a compiling of Ancient Fables, and can't see sufficient Reason to believe, that they could properly be called ''Milesian'' Fables; I can't number

==39==
him among the Writers of Romance.
The ''Ionians'', descended from ''Attica'' and ''Peloponnesus'', out of the Deference they had for their Original, maintain'd a great Correspondence with the ''Greeks''. The Children of these Nations were sent from the one to the other for Education, that they might be the better acquainted with the Manners and Habit of Life of each other. By this Commerce ''Greece'', which had of it self Inclination enough to Fables, learned the Art of Romances from the ''Ionians'', and improved it with great Success. But to avoid Confusion, I shall endeavour to give an Account of those Writers amongst the ''Greeks'',

==40==
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==44==
Roscius, took Occasion before the Senate of ''Selencia'' to insult and defame the tender and effeminate Disposition of the ''Romans'', who in the time of War could not disengage themselves of so soft entertainments.

Lucins of Patras, Lucian of Samosata, and Jamblichus, lived very near the same Time, under the Emperors ''Antoninus'', and ''Marcus Aurelius''. The first of them must not be reckoned among Romancers, for he no more than collected some Metamorphoses of the Magical Transformation of Men into Beasts, and Beasts into Men; dealing very simply and fairly, since he believed all that he wrote. ''Lucian''

==45==
with much more Policy and Judgment, relates some part of his Works only to expose and ridicule them, in the Book which he called ''Lucius's Ass''; to intimate that the Fiction was originally his. 'Tis in Effect an Abridgment of the two first Books of ''Lucius's Metamorphosis'' ; and this Fragment lets us see, That ''Photius'' had great Reason to arraign and decry his obscene and smutty Expressions. This ingenious and celebrated Ass, whose History these Authors wrote, was extremely like another of the same Worth and Merit, which ''Photius'' speaks of from ''Damascius'' in this Manner: "This Ass, says he, was the "Best of a Grammarian na-

==45==
med

==46==
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==48==
''Jambulus'', to compose his own, on purpose to detect and condemn the Vanity and Impertinence of theirs.

About this Time ''Jamblichus'' publish'd his ''Babylonics'', (for that was the Name of it) in which the vastly outdid all who preceded him. For if we may judge of it by the Fragment which ''Photius'' has left us of it, his Design comprehends but one Action, adorned with all necessary Improvements; and attended with Episodes, arising from the principal Subject. He has observed Verisimility most exactly; his Adventures are mixed with Variety without Confusion:

We can find Fault with nothing but want of Art in the Contrivance

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Life Philostratus has writ, among those of the other Sophists. But it is known, that he was Cotemporary with Arcadius and Honorius; and we find in Photius´s Catalogue of the Romancers, who he thought wrote in Imiration of Antonius Diogenes, where he names them in a Chronological Order; he has placed Heliodorus after Jamblichus, and before Damascius; who lived in the Time of the Emperor Justinian.
According to this Account, Achilles Tatius, who wrote a Regular Romance of the Amours of Clitophon and Leucippe, ought to have preceded; tho´I can find no certain Account, to justify my Opinion. Others think him

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he had a good Opportunity to judge of, because he had the Originals before him. He takes it for a True Story, not understanding the Art of Romances. For my part, tho' I can't pronounce of it in Certainty, because I have not seen the Original in Greek; yet the Reading the Translation, inclines me to think, that he had several sufficient Grounds, to assign the Author of it to be Athenagoras the Apologist. For the Apologist was a Christian; and this speaks of Divinity, after a manner very inconsistent with any, but one of that Profession: As when he makes the priests of Ammom declare, "That there is but One" God; and that every Nation defi-

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Merchants. That the Gods in the Fable, denoted the different Operations of this Sovereign, and only One Divinity, who is without Beginning, and without End: Whom he calls Obscure, and Dark, because he is Invisible, and Incomprehensible. Farther; the Discourses of the Priests and Merchants, upon the Divine Effence, very much resemble those of Athenagoras, in his Legation. The Apologist was a Priest of Athens; this was an Athenian Philosopher: Both seem Men of Sense, and Learning, and great Penetration into Antiquity.

==59==
But on the other side, we have many Reasons to suspect, not only that this is not ''Athenagoras'' the Christian, but that the Book it self is a mere Forgery. ''Photius'', giving an Exact Acount of the Composers of Romances before his Time, takes no Notice of him at all. Nobody ever saw a Copy of this work in any Library; and that which the Translator made use of, never appear'd since. Besides, he represents the Habitation, Life and Conduct of the Priests and Religious of ''Ammon'', so very like the Convents and Government of our Monks and Friars, that it ill accords with what History informs us, of

==60==
of the Time when the Monastic Life began, and when it arrived to Perfection.

Among all this Obscurity what seems most probable to me, is, that 'tis an Ancient Work, but of a later Date than the Apology.

For I observe such a Profound Knowledge, both in Matters of Nature and Art; so great an Intimacy with the Annals of Time past, so many Curious Remarks, not taken from Ancient Authors which are left us, but which relate to, and explain them; so much of the Greek Phrase, which one may discover throughout the Translation; and over all, a certain Character of Antiquity, which cannot be

==61==
counterfeited; that I cant't be persuaded that it is any Production of ''Fumee's'', whose Learning was but indifferent; or that the most Able and Ingenious Person in those Days, could devise any Thing like it. If ''Photius'' hash not mentioned him; how many other Great and Famous Authors have escaped his Cognisance, or his Diligence! If in our Days only one Copy was found, which perhaps is since lost; how many other Exellent Works have undergone the same Destiny! If this fails of giving you Satisfaction, and you'll oblige me to extend my Conjectures, and attempt to find out the Precise Time of its Production; I have nothing left to

==62==
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to one Principal Action, follow the Rules of an Heroick Poem ; as ''Athenagoras'' and ''Heliodorus'' have done, tho' not so accurately : But our Old ''French'' have multiplied them without Order, Connexion, or Art. These the ''Italians'' have imitated, borrowing of them their Romances, with their Imperfections. Here we ''Giraldi'' in a worse Error than the former : He endeavours to commend this Vice, and turn it into a Virtue : Whereas, if it be true what himself asserts, that a Romance should resemble a Perfect Body , and consist of many different Parts and Proportions all under one Head ; it follows , that the Principal Action of a Romance should be

==66==
equal Beauty and Eminence, it was as impossible to digest them into one regular body, as it would be to erect a compleat structure with no materials but sand. The applause which the faulty romances of his nation have received, does yet justify him the less: We are not to judge of a performance by the number, but sufficiency of the approbators. Every one assumes to himself the license to judge of, and censure poesie and romance: The sumptuous palaces and common streets are made tribunals, where the merit sof the greatest works receive a supreme decision. There every one shoots his bolt, and boldly prefumes to fet an estimate of

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Form of a Satyr, of the same Kind which Varro invented, intermixing Prose with Verse, the Serious with the Jocose, and stile with Menippean; because Menippus had before treated of Serious Matters in a Pleasant Style. This Satyr of Petronius fails not to be a True Romance: It contains nothing but diverting and ingenious Fictions; tho' they are sometimes too licentious and immodest. He hides under a Disguise a fine and poinant Railery, against the Vices of Noro's Court. That remains of it, are only some incoherent Fragments, or rather Collections of some industrious Person; so that one can't exactly discern the

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what very Few understand) is yet much easier to be understood,than practised well. Some say,the Poet ''Lucan'' (who also lived in the Reign of ''Nero'') composed ''Saltic'' Fables; wherein(some think) wererecounted the Intrigous of ''Satyrs'' and ''Nymphs''. This agree well with a Romance, and the Wit of that Age, which was very much inclined to the Amusements of that Art. But since there is nothing left us of it but the title, and that does not clearly express the Nature of the Work; it shall say nothing of it.

The ''Metamorphosis'' of ''Apnleins'', so well known by the Name of the Golden Ass, was com-

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Elegant Episodes; and among others, with that of Psyche, which no one is ignorant of. He has taken no Care to retrench the Smuttiness of the Originals which he followed. His Style is that of a Sophist, full of Affectation and violent Figures; hard, barbarous, and very becoming an African.
Some are of Opinion, that ''Clodius Albinus'', a Pretender to the Empire, who was defeated by ''Severus'', did not disdain this Employment. ''Juslius Capitolinus'' reports in his Life, that there were several ''Milesian'' Fables under his Name in very great Reputation, tho' but indifferently composed: And that ''Severus'' reproached the Senate, that they had

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is attended by them) espouses Philology (which is the Love od Good Letters) he gives her whatever is Excellent in them, for a Nuptial Present: So that it is a continued Allegory, which properly does not deserve the Name of Romance, but rather that of a Fable. For, as I have already observed, a Fable represents Things which never have, or ever can happen; and a Romance takes notice of Things which may, but never have happen'd. The Artifice of this Allegory is not very subtle; he Style is Barbarism it self; so bold and extravagant in its Figures, that they are unpardonable in the most Desperate Poet. Tis disguised with so great an

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maintain the Antiquity of these Writers, tho' I have great Authority to do it, because the common and received Opinion would support me. 'Tis certain that the ''Arabians'' were extremely addicted, as I have made appear, to the ''Gay Science'', I mean, Poesy, Fable, and Fiction. This Science was preserv'd in its Primitive Rudeness by them, till it was cultivated and improved by the ''Greeks''. They brought it along with their Arms into ''Africa'', when they subdued it; tho' it had before flourished in that Country: For ''Aristotle'', and after him ''Priscian'', make mention of the ''Libyc'' Fables; and the Romances of ''Apuleius'' and ''Martianns Capella'', both

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to be the first Romance of Chivalry which was printed in ''Spain'', and the Model, and Best of all the other.
''Palmerin'' of ''England'', which some believe was composed by a King of ''Portugal'', met with an Easy Sentence, to be put in a Box like that of ''Darius'', wherein ''Alexander'' kept the Works of ''Homer''. Don ''Belianis'', the Mirror of Chilvalry, ''Tirante'' the ''White'', and ''Kyrie'' ''Eleison'' of ''Montauban''; (for in those Good Old Times it was believed, that ''Kyrie Eleison'', and ''Paralipomenon'', were the Names of some Saints) where the Subtleties of Madam ''Pleasure-of-my-Life'', and the Love and Intrigues of the Widow ''Reposada'', are highly

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among us, to give their Vestments to Poets, which continues to this Day in Use at Fez, confirms this Suspicion: I answer; That it is not impossible that we should receive Rhymes from the Arabians, and in Imitation of them, apply them to Romances. I'll allow farther, that the Inclination we then had for Romances, might be enhanced and sortified by their Example; and that our Art of Romancing (as is probable) was enriched, and improved, by the Communication of Wars we were engaged in with Spain: But all this does not conclude, that we were indebted to them for our Inclination to this Art; since 'twas in

==118==
Use with us, before 'twas known among them. This Reason does farther oblige me not to believe, that the Princes of France took the Custom of Divesting themselves of their Garments, in Favour of the Poets, from the Arabian Kings. I rather think, that each of them were affected with the Excellent Works they heard repeated, and could not restrain themselves from dispensing their Liberality immediately, and made use of their Garments, because they were nearest at Hand; as we read of some Saints, who have done the same to the Poor: And that this Custom, which was received into France by Accident,

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with Herbs and Roots; so when the Knowledge of Truth, which is the Proper and Natural Aliment of the Mind, begins to fail, we have Recourse to Falshood, which is the Imitation of Truth. As in Plenty we refuse Bread, and our ordinary Viands, for Ragousts; so our Minds, when acquainted with the Truth, forsake the Study and Speculation of it, to be entertained with its Image, which is Fiction. This Imitation, according to Aristotle, is often more agreeable than the Original itself; so that two oppositely different Paths, which are Ignorance and Learning, Rudeness and Politness, do often conduct uss to the same End; which is, an

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have recourse to what's past, and to come, in Truth and in Fiction, in Imaginary Spaces and Impossibilities, For Objects to exert it sels upon. The Objects of sense fill the Desires of the Soul of Brutes, who have no farther Concern; so that we can't discover in them these restless Emotions, which continually actuate the Mind of Man, and carry it into the Pursuit of a recent Information, to proportion (if possible) the Object to the Faculty; and enjoy a Pleasure, resembling that which we perceive in the Applealing a Violent Hunger, and Extinguishing a Corroding Thirst. This is that which ''Plato'' intends, in the Marriage of Dorus

==126==
and Penia, (in which Terms he would express Riches Riches and Poverty,) which produce exquisite Pleasure. The Object is signified by Riches, which are not so but in Use and Intention; otherwise they are Unfruitful, and afford no Delight. The Faculty is intended by Poverty; which is sterile, and always attended by Inquietud; while 'tis separated from Riches, whereas its Union with them, supplies the Highest Satisfaction. The Case is the same with our Souls: Poverty, the same with Ignorance, is Natural to it; it sighs continually after Science, which is its Riches; and when 'tis possess'd of this Enjoyment, it feels the greatest Pleasure. But this

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tions there find themselves agreeably provoked and appeased.
'Tis hence, that those who act more by Reason than Passion, and labour more with their Imagination than Understanding, are affected by them, tho' these other are touched by them too, but after another manner. These are touched by the Beauties of Art, which amuse the Understanding; but the former, Ignorant and Simple, are sensible of no more than what strikes upon the Imagination, and stirs their Passion. They love the Fiction, and enquire no farther. Now Fiction being nothing but Narrations, True in Appearance, and False in Reality; the Minds of the Simple, who discern only

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and History so far, that they now no longer understand those Works, from which they received their greatest Embellishments: And lest they should blush at this Ignorance, which they find themselves so often guilty of; they perceive they had better disapprove what they don't know, than take the Pains to learn it.
The Men, in Complaisance, have imitated them, condemned what they disliked, and call that Pendantry, which made an Essential Part of Politeness, even in ''Malherbe's'' Time. The Poets, and other ''French'' Writers who succeeded, have been constrained to submit to this Arbitration;

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Monsieur D'Vrfee was the first who retrieved them from Barbarity, and reduced them to Rules, in his Incomparable Afirea, The most Ingenious and Polite Work which has appeared in this Kind, and which Eclipsed the Glory which Greece, Italy and Spain, had acquired.
However, he has not discouraged those who come after him, to undertake what he has performed. He has not so far engrossed the Public Admiration, but that some are still left for the many Excellent Romances which displayed themselves in France since His.

==146==

==147==
itself against Scrupulous Censures, not only by the Commendations which the Patriarch Photius gives it, but by the great Examples of those who have applied themselves to it, might justify itself by Her's: That that which has been improved by Philosophers, as Apuleis, and Athenagoras; by a Roman Prator, as Sisenna; by a Consul, as Petronius; by a Pretender to the Empire, as Clodius Albinus; by a Priest, as Theodorus Prodromus; by Bishops, as Heliodorus, and Achilles Tatius; by a Pope, as Pius Secundus, who wrote the Loves of Euryalus and Lucretia; by a Saint, as John Damascenus; might have the Ho-

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nour

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[[Category:17th century|1670]]
[[Category:1670s|1670]]
[[Category:By author|Huet, Pierre Daniel]]