Talk:2007-08 AM Le Morte Darthur (1485)

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Hi Olaf, just stumbled upon this course of yours and incidentally I am just listening to the Connecticut Yankee as an audio book. As far as I have checked it is a completely unaltered reading; don't know if this is helpful or not - personally I sometimes like audiobooks while running or driving to university or doing whatever that requires only part of my concentration: http://librivox.org/a-connecticut-yankee-in-king-arthurs-court-by-mark-twain/ If you do this course and "old stuents" are permitted entry you can almost count on me. --Nico Zorn 11:41, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

I thought you would like it - and of course you are welcome (who is a greater expert on the fantasy world that book created?) --Olaf Simons 12:42, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

Oh, I believe there are some ;) If you would like to include a recent novel, "Knight Live" might be interesting. It basically tells the story of Arthur being awaken from his sleep in our modern time and now going to help mankind...by first candidating as the mayor of New York. Of course Morgan, Medraud, Merlin, Guinevere, Lancelot and lots of other characters eomwhere got accross the times as well... I would have a German revised edition at my place. (The author recently re-worked the novel since the original was sold out and he felt like he should include some of the more recent developments - the politics of America were hopelessly outdated for example), cf: Amazon Not the best spoof but an amusing one and pretty recent. (But the Morte and the Yankee are already pretty long, of course) --Nico Zorn 13:48, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

My present problem is more to create a mixture of sessions on the text and its contexts... --Olaf Simons 19:57, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

The Project Gutenberg etext of the Connecticut Yankee might not really be the best text - but it surely has some nice scans of an 1889 edition and might perchance be worth a look: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/86/86-h/86-h.htm --Nico Zorn 22:31, 10 July 2007 (CEST)

beautiful - yes we should read the Yankee in the seminar. If only I had an idea how to get both things done: a seminar on the original text and on these later materials - which will not break into two halves. It might be done by themes - a series of 12 topics which have, however, to be chosen in a way that they do allow a continuous discussion of the 1485 text. Each topic should be well chosen to deal with two new books of the Caxton-text in each session - Caxton's text consists of 21 books. So it could be magic and witchcraft in one session focusing on books 8+9 (have not read them so far) and on let us say Twain's text. Nationalism and books 10-11 and a focus on this and that sort of additional material...

If only I had time - I am really looking forward to reading the Caxton text... --Olaf Simons 10:54, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Regarding a "classic" of Arthurian Fantasy

I have done some inquiry (by simply asking around on what people who are no strangers to fantasy) would consider a classic of Arthurian fantasy.
The short answer: there is none.
The slightly longer answe: There is no real "classic", unless you count Mallory's Morte d'Arthur (which fits the classic part... the fantasy part is not that sure). It seems more like "every Fantasy author must write an Arthurian novel or story" (very short and cursory article) one day or another. This is taking "arthurian novel" in a very broad sense. It does show, at the very least, that Arthur is still a topic in fantasy today; even in non-Arthurian fantasy there are some traces of the legends surrounding the Round Table. One can observe similar developments in fantasy-related metal and other kinds of music (Blind Guardian: Mordred's Song; A Past and Future Secret...). What is left if there is no one classic? Lots of different interpretations.
I am Mordred puts, as can be guessed, a lot of emphasis on Mordred and his sight, presenting him in a more positive light than usual.
Mists of Avalon the perhaps most contemporary "classic" Arthurian fantasy similarly shifts focus by using Morgaine's (Morgan Le Fay) and Gwenhwyfar's point of view.
Excalibur allegedly puts a more realistic grip onto the story (cannot vouch for that - did not read it myself. and so on... Moreover, many of those novels are not stand-alone but part of a trilogy or an even larger series of novels. I am afraid it is impossible to find a real classic. The best move might be to have students short presentations abut Arthurian Fantasies they think are classics or original/worthwhile for some reason or the other and maybe read one standalone AF. The Mordred book would be acceptable for length (one book, 192p.; no series) but has the disadvantage(?) of being a children's book.
--Nico Zorn 22:40, 22 July 2007 (CEST)

Verlegung des Seminars

Ich frage mich gerade, ob das Seminar verlegt werden muß, da ich per e-mail von einem interessierten die Nachricht erhielt, der andere Modulteil (Geleukens) liefe zeitgleich. Muß das noch checken. Sagt mir, wenn es da Terminpräferenzen gibt - oder must nots. --Olaf Simons 12:52, 23 July 2007 (CEST)

Das Seminar wurde schließlich auf Freitag Nachmittag, 16:00-18:00 verlegt - meine Entschuldigung dafür und meinen Dank an Rustam Usmanov, der uns auf die Terminüberschneidung aufmerksam machte. --Olaf Simons 16:06, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

Organisatorisches: Text, Lese- und Filmabende

Liebe Seminarteilnehmer/innen

40 Teilnehmer haben sich mittlerweile auf StudIP eingetragen - soviele werden das Seminar wohl nicht besuchen wollen. Mit dem Druckzentrum der Uni handelte ich eine günstige Option aus, wie Ihr an den Text kommen könnt: Um die 10 Euro müßte uns das Exemplar kosten, das als kleines Buch den Caxton Text anbieten wird. Ich werde die 40 Exemplare, die ich drucken ließ, ab Anfang der Woche im Büro haben.

Wer massive Angst vor der Sprache hat, kann das Buch für sich vorab auf Deutsch lesen - Ihr solltet im Seminar jedoch soweit kommen, daß Ihr mit dem Original umgehen könnt.

Ich entschloß mich, die Freitag Abende, die immer Wochenausklang mit Seminaren waren, an unser Artus-Seminar anzuschließen. Wer will, kann den Abend in der Tannenkampstr. 12 am großen Eßtisch verlängern. Den ersten Abend will ich für den Text und die fremde Sprache nutzen - reihum laut lesen. Die Abende werden regulär mit gemeinsamem Kochen und Essen enden. Nach den ersten Abenden, die das Leseverstehen verbessern müßten, sollten wir zu Artusfilmen übergehen, und zusehen, möglichst viele davon anzuschauen. Wer also speziell vor der Sprache Angst hat, sollte sich den kommenden Freitag frei halten für eine gemeinsame Lektüre.

Kommunikation über das Seminar laßt bitte hier laufen. Das hat den Vorteil das andere von Euren Fragen profitieren können,

Gruß --Olaf Simons 16:02, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

alte Wörter übersetzen

Hab mich gerade mal an die ersten Kapitel gesetzt und bin erstaunt wieviel man doch (im Groben) versteht. Gibt es trotzdem irgendwo eine Übersetzungshilfe, bei der man diese alten Wörter nachschlagen kann (am besten natürlich online)?? Ich werd mich zumindest mal auf die Suche begeben, aber vielleicht kennst ihr ja irgendne Adresse--Sebastian Henatsch 14:28, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

Und siehe da, hab auch schon wat gefunden: The electronic Middle English Dictionary

Du hast hinten mein grobes Wörterverzeichnis gesehen? Man lernt, denke ich auch, recht schnell, wie das jeweilige heutige Wort aussähe - und eigentlich ist Mittelenglisch für uns (Platt-)Deutsche sowieso viel einfacher als heutiges Englisch. --Olaf Simons 15:14, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

Amanda Hopkins (University of Warwick) hat auch eine nette Seite zusammengestellt mit Lernmaterialien fürs Mittelenglische - aufgrund des dortigen Moduls fokussiert auf SGGK (also mit stärkeren skandinavischen Einflüssen) und Chaucer, generell auch eher älter und weniger auf der Grenze zu Early Modern English Einige Links sind dort zu finden zu Hörproben - mit vsch. Dialekt. Mehr Links rund um Romaunces habe ich noch in einer Liste gespeichert aber gerade keinen Zugriff. --Nico Zorn 15:37, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

Schließlich ist da das OED - auf dem Campus online oder über die National-Lizenz online, das Erst-Belege aller Wörter sammelt... http://dictionary.oed.com/

nur leider ist das OED NICHT bei dein National-Lizenzen mit dabei....[1] oder gibts da noch ne andere Lizenzen-Seite?--Sebastian Henatsch 18:10, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Notes, Thoughts, Hints &c.

Manchmal stolpert man ja über unerwartet Verbindungen zu einem Seminar zurück und greift unweigerlich zur Lektüre. Als "Erweiterte Artuslektüre" sei auf From Ritual to Romance von Jessie L. Weston hingewiesen, die sich insbes. mit dem Wasteland Motiv auseinander setzt (Buch 17.iii; auch Buch 2 f. d. 'Dolorous Stroke') und wiederum T.S. Eliot angeregt hat The Waste Land zu schreiben. --Nico Zorn 21:57, 18 November 2007 (CET)

Just now, I thought about why in the Arthur-tales neither landscape, faces nor weather are described. And I thought, what if, Malory´s head was just full of ideas, which had to get out at all costs. Just think! Isn’t that what you yourself can imagine, preferable to some book or plot or boring essay, that has nothing special to say at all? I am not saying all books are boring, but there are certain genres which repeat the same motive quite often. And a person may choose to invent his or her own stories, not because he or she wants to be read by others, but because he /she simply enjoys doing it. And one does not need to describe faces or surroundings, because he/she can see them in their head – better and clearer than you could ever describe them. There’s no need to be accurate, but a need for the story to develop, to create new food for your mind, or release energy. Now, this is all very speculative. One could ask, why should you waste expensive paper, why should you go through so much trouble? But if you suppose, that people didn’t change much over the centuries, then you can also suppose that they are creative and need a kind of chimney for their ideas to be released, especially if they are in prison (see wikipedia article on Thomas Malory),where time stretches and you might want to escape somehow. And you are alone and have no one to talk to, or if you have, it´s not the kind of company you would wish for. But paper listens and if you write something down, you can cease to think of it, you feel that you don’t betray you thoughts, by ignoring them, but after writing them down, you either make room for new thoughts or develop a peace of mind, at least for a while. In prison or any miserable circumstances really, you have nothing left, but your own thoughts and your honour. And if you are a criminal, you even lost the honour part. What do you think? This approach is not very scientific – but Malory’s text isn’t either. Johanna Ehrhardt 22:49, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Besteht die Möglichkeit, für die Hausarbeit auch die Norton Critical Edition zu benutzen? Liebe Grüße Inga

Da spricht nichts dagegen. --Olaf Simons 19:22, 25 March 2008 (CET)